Red-pill knowledge* can be– is meant to be– very disillusioning. But it can also be empowering, and even a force for good in the world.
I’ve recently observed (not in person) an until-this-girl-who’s-The-One-virgin Christian friend getting balls-deep in a girl who:
- has +3 years on him
- Late late 20s
- Has a hard quant degree and job experience to his human resources interests
- Went to an elite school to his good, but not elite, school
- Was a virgin– a long time ago, so more ‘experienced.’ Also ostensibly Christian.
- Made him wait for months before putting out
Observations: They’re both at the same grad school program. He touches her in public; she doesn’t touch him. She’s not too happy when they’re out with friends and he offers various PDA. Hanging on her, almost. Haven’t seen any spontaneous acts of goodwill from her to him. He’s passing up jobs and job offers for her location preferences. She wants a big ring and wedding, and he’s stressing about the ring.
Now, without having seen the behind-the-scenes of the relationship, I offer the following analysis:
Red flags all over. He’s making a terrible mistake because he’s gotten his dick wet and that’s all that he can see. He will be in a sexless marriage following the last time she has sex to conceive the number of kids she wants. She wants to lock down a ring for her own personal / social reasons, and does not love him, but may stick through the dating charade for the marriage. She has no particular reason to look up to him for his social or professional status. He will eventually rise in sexual-market value but will have fewer options because he’s tied up in a marriage, although he’ll continue to see the foregone possibilities prancing around him in short skirts and pretend they don’t affect him. She will become unhappy and because she has settled for a man who she perceives as having less value and make his life miserable, possibly by becoming fat and sullen. He will think it’s how it’s supposed to be, put on a brave face in public, and trudge along through life until she kicks up the Christian divorce theft or cheats.
Now, I could be wrong. Maybe they have an idyllic relationship and are destined for great things, even overcoming the vicissitudes of life. But more realistically, and perhaps I’m a bit of a jaded cynic, but I’d give 80% that he will be miserable. So I’m on call for a save-the-brother style intervention when he buys a ring, if it doesn’t break before then.
I’ll give him my thoughts ahead of church-time and let him decide. He deserves that. Doesn’t matter if I burn the bridge if I napalm it with the facts. Sometimes, you have to burn the relationship to save it, and besides, I’ll sleep in good conscience.
*See the links on the side
Thanks for the linkage!
The scenario you describe is brutal. Unfortunately he will be extremely difficult to get through to. His desire to retain a woman he believes is out of his league* will mingle with the natural male desire to protect women, and this jumbled mess will oppose anything critical you say of her. You won’t be arguing with logic, you will be arguing with emotion, but his responses will be framed as if they are logic.
I would take one of two paths:
1) Frame it as your desire to see his future children grow up in a happy marriage. Gently point out that while she clearly loves him very much, he isn’t the husband who will make her truly happy. At the same time, there is another woman out there who would have all of her dreams come true if she could marry him. By marrying his current girlfriend he is taking away the happiness of: his girlfriend, the other woman you just mentioned, and his future children. This will counteract some of the mingling of protectiveness with his desire to lock down what he thinks is too good to be true.
or
2) Work on him regarding how seriously he takes marriage. Challenge him to prove to you he takes it seriously, and bring up the importance to his future children. Use examples of fatherless children you both know, and bring out his protective instincts for them. Then, challenge him to promise you that he won’t marry a woman who isn’t just as solid on marriage as he is. Make him promise that he won’t marry a woman who isn’t 100% clear on what valid reasons for divorce are, and “I’m not haaapy” and “Fell out of love” aren’t on the list. I would also challenge him to agree with a prospective wife to teach their children that frivolous divorce is wrong and explain it to them as my wife and I did for our daughter here. Since he is Christian, I would also challenge him regarding the biblical model of marriage. Is he ashamed of what is in Scripture? Would he defy the Bible and marry a woman who wasn’t ready to follow the biblical role of a wife?**
However, none of this will work if he believes that you are just generally down on marriage, and even if he doesn’t it really is a long shot. In the end the risk is very high that this will be a burned bridge, with you having done your best.
*I started to type “knows is out of his league”, but the irony is he is the best man she can get. If she could do better, she would have. However, she clearly doesn’t see it that way and likely never will.
**This is risky because 99% of churches out there claim to be for biblical marriage, but the bastardized version they support is all about the husband leading his wife where she tells him to go. Instead of the driver, he becomes a chauffeur. Because of this, you would need to focus on the actual Scripture, and focus on convincing him to only propose to a woman who isn’t uncomfortable with the Scripture. I included a list of references you could use in the table here .